Let me begin by saying that I am not becoming Catholic, nor am I leading RiverTree in that direction. However, I am also not Protestant, nor is RiverTree a Protestant church. Protestant means to “protest” against Catholicism. I personally am a follower of Jesus who is part of a church made up of Jesus-followers, all of us together doing our best to be the church in a broken world.
Sooo, when we attempt to draw people closer to God by asking them to sacrifice something pleasurable for a short period of time it does not mean that we’ll soon be sprinkling babies or asking people to pay a fee for the forgiveness of sins. It is simply an attempt to creatively (and I believe the idea of fasting is also VERY Biblical) encourage people to draw near to God and place their full dependence on Him.
With all of that said, I did not grow up in a tradition that practiced Lent. I don’t have a negative association with many of the traditions that other Christians practice. If I have been insensitive to those who have come out of such a background, I am deeply sorry. In no way did I anticipate that placing ashes on our forehead as a symbol of our dependence on God nor giving up something we enjoy to remind us to make sure that nothing has taken God’s place in our hearts might cause anyone distress. I pray you will continue to struggle along with me as we together fumble about with the things of God.
For those of you who are finding this to be a very meaningful experience, I pray that you will continue to join me on this journey of sacrifice. Not taking hot showers and not drinking coffee is certainly not enjoyable, but it has spurred me to focus on Jesus and the needs of others in a very refreshing way.
Seems to me, no matter what a church and/or pastor does, there will be some who like it and some who don’t. However, we don’t worship the church, and we don’t worship the pastor (at least we’re not supposed to). A person will be hard pressed to find a church, pastor, or any person that they will agree with 100% of the time. We are all human and bound to disappoint. That is why we put our trust in the God who will not fail us, after all, it’s not about us, it’s about Him.
It bothers me to hear this kind of “religious bickering.” It detracts from why we are here and what we should really be doing which is seeking God and loving others through Christ Jesus.
Greg,
First of all I wish you would stop challenging me like this. With that said I have decide to join you in sacrificing some things that I enjoy everyday.
1. I have also given up my coffee. It is monday afternoon and I already have aheadache.
2. I have given up smoking my cigars for the week.
3. I drink too much pop, tea, lemonade in addtition to my coffee so the only thing I will drink this week is good old H2O.
4. I have given up watching my favorite tv programs this week and instead will use the time to study my spanish for my mission trip to Peru that starts this Saturday.
5. As for the cold showers you are on your own. I am pretty sure that next week in Peru the showers will be cold enough.
Thanks for the challenge and thanks for pushing me to grow with you.
Steve
Greg,
Make no apology for trying to bring people closer to the Lord. I also have given up hot showers. I have forgotten how REALLY cold Colorado Water is.
There will always be those who do not understand. I believe many practices in the Catholic church can bring a person closer rather then farther from Christ. The doctrinal divide is a mile wide, but the intent is the same, to walk closer with Christ.
I think there is one important distinction to be made between what we have been challenged to do in this case and the ‘Tradition’ of some other Christian Churches. In this case, we were challenged to make an intentional decision to act. In other religions where this act is an annual tradition, it can become simply a tradition without meaning… unless you have a personal intent to make it spiritual.
I grew up Catholic and only left there about 2 years ago. As a family, we stopped the lent traditions, because, after all, that was something we wanted to get away from. But when Easter arrived for us that first year as non-Lent observers, we realized we had not treated the season as reverently as years past. We decided to start some Lenten traditions back up in our family to help us to remember Jesus during this time. So, I was happy to see how this was presented to us last weekend at RiverTree.
As for disparaging this notion on the grounds of it being a man-made tradition, consider that most Christians make Sunday their primary day of worship. This practice, after all, is tradition too. Where do we draw the line? I think it’s important not to draw a line at all and rather to simply focus on our relationship with Him.
As Romans 14: 6-8, 19 (NLT) puts it: Those who worship the Lord on a special day do it to honor him. Those who eat any kind of food do so to honor the Lord, since they give thanks to God before eating. And those who refuse to eat certain foods also want to please the Lord and give thanks to God. For we don’t live for ourselves or die for ourselves. If we live, it’s to honor the Lord. And if we die, it’s to honor the Lord. …So then, let us aim for harmony in the church and try to build each other up.
Lent doesn’t have to be about giving up something pleasurable. I can also be about doing something, or making an extra effort at something. It could be visiting someone who needs a visit . . . or it could be setting aside a time and place to pray every day.
Greg,
This post is excellent and right where I am at. Being a prior Catholic I can relate to both sides. However, in my studies in recent years, I have found many Catholic writers and especially the Mystics to be most appealing. Henri Nouwen is a perfect example of what I speak of. I just recently signed up for his daily email meditations and they are great. His book “In the Name of Jesus-Reflections on Christian Leadership” was a hit it out of the Park book for me. So…., these last two post are soothing to my soul brother.
Hey by the way.., check out Vince’s blog and look at his last entry from Israel. Pretty amazing stuff! Love ya man!
IHL,
Richie
p.s. Give Big Dave a Bear Hug for me!
It’s always interesting to me how people kick and scream when you ask them to give something up. It would be a great study of human behavior to see what kind of comments you would have gotten if you had given everyone a Target gift card on the way out the door instead of ashes. I’m thinking the silence would be deafening……..Actually, in all seriousness I am impressed by Rivertree and its staff to chase after the “traditions” that will bring us closer to God. Rock on. And, by the way, I gave up potato chips and negative talk.
I was raised in a Traditional Roman Catholic Church, which is much different than the Catholic churches of today. I did not relate Pastor Greg’s suggestion of making a sacrifice for a week to be the same as the Catholic Church’s lenton duty. The big difference I see is that RiverTree suggested we take part for our own good, and the Catholic Church demands participation in order to gain graces to earn your way into heaven. My mother once told me if I ate meat on Friday, I would go to hell. I don’t get that message at RiverTree. I believe Jesus fasted and sacrificed for all of us, and we are here to try to model His example. My husband and I and our children have joined in this one very LONG week of sacrifice. Both of us giving up caffeine at the same time isn’t such a good idea. I do believe we will be better people because of it. Our children have given up some hard things as well. One is going without her computer, one has given up TV and video games, another has given up all sweets. To us it is not a Catholic thing. It is a family thing. Reflecting on the sacrifice Jesus made for us can only be good for us. I appreciate when our church challenges us to be better people.
Greg,
We have gotten my entire family involved with sacrificing something that gives us pleasure.
I have given up Iced Tea, my husband who is in China is giving up Coke products, we actually called him and told him of your sermon!
My son who is 11 has given up cereal. Let me tell you he would eat cereal at everymeal if you would let him. I am proud of him!!
My 14 year old is giving up carbonated beverages. My 16year old wanted to give up homework! I said that does not give you pleasure! So he has given Taco Bell.
Thank you,
The Jackson Family
If we are not a protestant church than what are we? A protestant is defined by oxford as someone who does not believe in the authority of the pope and as someone who believes that the canon of scripture is closed. Do you believe in the authority of the pope? Do you believe that the canon of scripture is closed? The protestant reformation happened because of disagreement over these things.
We’re considered a part of the Restoration Movement. Our desire is to restore New Testament Christianity to what it was in the early church–before Catholicism or Protestantism even began.
No creed but Christ.
No book but the Bible.
Not the only Christians, but Christians only.
In essentials unity, in non-essentials liberty, in all things–love.
g
This week I have decided to give up speeding! Ouch! Well it is for me anyways – I have such a lead foot. It has been a major ordeal for me to obey the speed limits – doesn’t matter if I’m late for something (which I always am) or if my 18 month old is SCREAMING in the back seat – I have committed to being obident this week.
restoration is what ALL non- Catholic churches attempt to achieve. The question is, when the apostles died, did Jesus leave us w/ no canonized scripture, no way of knowing what writings post 33 A.D. out there were “inspired” or not? Where was the “church, the pillar and bulwark of truth” that is mentioned in 1 Timothy? There seems to be a big blank of history between John’s revelation and the reformation/restoration movement. So how did one know Truth w/ no new testament for several hundred years? As a lover of history, I’m intrigued to know how a person born in the year 222AD would have known and found the Truth of Jesus and How to Live It!